March 23

Week 11-

In class discussion on Yellowface

READ: No Joy, No Luck and A Certain Slant


RJ: See Joy Luck Club and describe how the critiques in the articles relate to the construction of one of the characters? Why does Hagedorn say Asian American Actresses have “no joy, no luck?”

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17 Responses to March 23

  1. Diana says:

    The critiques in both articles represent the common stereotypes Asians must play in movies in order to recieve attention. For example, the critiques from No Joy, No Luck point out that “good” Asian women are childlike, submissive, silent, and eager for sex therefore, white directors stigmatized Asian women and Asian culture as a servitud race that cannot take on different roles; This goes back to Voltaire’s Orphan in China by which white actors whom had never seen an Asian, acted as a yellowface to an audience who never even seen an Asian. Therefore, whites have used minority races for their entertainment and have created an image of “otherness” in order to remind themselves that whites are a superior race.
    Whites who were casted to play “yellowfaces” did so because many Asians did not possess the talent according to Miss Saion’s casting director. In addition, whites were better “fitted” to play an oriental role than Asians themselves because whites tried to play the sterotypes while Asian actors were trying to play humans (3). This leaves white critics to believe that they are incompetent to take on major roles because Asians tried to put themselves in the same category or equal to white actors. Hagedorn says Asian American Actresses have “no joy, no luck” because they have learned to accept their limited role(s) in television. Whether they play a major role, they are always negatively protrayed.

  2. Candice Kosanke says:

    The way Rose is characterized in the film supports the articles’ critiques of the way Asian women are represented in movies. Hagedorn says that the stereotypical “good” Asian woman is submissive and silent, and that women are often forced to be “silent, suffering doormats” (74). Rose fits this description perfectly, even though no one, including her husband, pressures her to act that way. She takes care of everything around the house without her husband asking her to, and when she is accepted by the college she has always wanted to attend, she thinks that it wouldn’t be right for her to go. She decides to stay at home and support her husband’s business instead of going off to study, even though her husband doesn’t force her to—in fact, she never even tells him that she got accepted into the college.

    The best example of this voluntary submissiveness is when Rose is trying to get her husband to tell her what she should make for dinner. When he tells her to just make whatever she wants, she doesn’t know what to do. Even though he tells her that he wants to hear her voice—he wants her to have her own opinion about things—she doesn’t know how to be anything except submissive.

    Hagedorn says that Asian American women have “no joy, no luck” because they are unable to go beyond the limited roles that the stereotypes of Asian women allow them to play. They are always portrayed as quiet, submissive, obedient wives, or as silent, suffering victims. Even if Asian American actresses have major roles in a movie, as all the actresses in “The Joy Luck Club” do, they are forced to portray oppressed, submissive, victimized characters who suffer in silence.

  3. Kate Schreiber says:

    In the Joy Luck Club there are several instances in which the characters within the film emulate what Hagedorn states in her article “no joy, no luck” about the depictions of Asian-American women in American films. A majority of the Asian-American women are portrayed as submissive – emphasizing the importance of obedience and dedication to one’s husband and children, as if that is their only valuable contribution. Throughout the film and the separate narratives that exist there within, cooking is highlighted as some sort of super power for women, as if that is all that they offer apart from their domestic duties. In addition to cooking, especially with the first story of Linda (who was one of the mothers of the Chinese American women characters in the film), beauty and subservience to men and their wishes are highlighted and demonstrated as the utmost important qualities of these women. Linda’s mother constantly advised Linda – eat slower, take care of your body because “who wants a daughter-in-law with ugly spots?” After Linda’s mother gave her over to a family in what seemed to be a prearranged marriage (in which she was wed to a boy who didn’t seem over the age of 12) the young boy even echoes this statement proclaiming “I am the husband, I make all of the rules.” (Because, as Hagedorn says,
    While Linda’s narrative serves as a somewhat contradictory example of Hagedorn’s thesis as she manages to escape a seemingly Chinese sort of prearranged slavery where being a women means only bearing sons to carry on the family name, all of the other daughters of the older stars in the film seem to reinforce Hagedorn’s thesis. Though, as a viewer, I wanted to believe that these women would overcome the stereotypes and the obstacles, in one way or another each of them fulfilled it. Whether it be “splitting up” the household expenses with a husband and accepting that despite hard work and equal effort he got paid seven and a half times more than that, refusing to attend college because she felt she was more needed at home, or not being able to say what you really wanted for dinner until your husband gave you a hint. The Joy Luck Club does manage to stray from the typical stereotypical perceptions of Asian women and yet it manages to also provide the viewer with somewhat disappointing narratives of Asian women as well. For some reason or another, they just can’t find equality as all of the men in the film (whether it be the men involved with the elderly women in the joy luck club or their daughters) ultimately held a majority of the power in any relationship. The women just fulfilled these men’s sexual and domestic needs.

  4. Becky Esrock says:

    The overall theme of tragedy in The Joy Luck Club, is heavily critiqued by Jessica Hagedorn in her article “Asian Women in Film: No Joy, No Luck.” One character in which I find a lot of evidence of the portrayal of the typical Asian film character as depicted in her article is Suyuan. Hagedorn tells how Asian women in Hollywood films are often portrayed as “tragic victim types” (Hagedorn 74). Suyuan in her past was forced out of necessity to abandon her two daughters on the side of the road. Moreover, all four women that comprise the club are seen as tragic souls through the struggles of their past. Their lives are quite different than their American born daughters, that are more assimilated compared to them. Their harsh Asian roots remain strong and the realities of their past unforgotten. Hagedorn tells how all the flashbacks in the movie are ridden with tragedy. She questions, “Must ethnicity only be equated with suffering?” (Hagedorn 76). This characterization of Asian women and connection with tragedy and suffering is a function of Hollywood’s mindset on the role of Asians in society. This ties into the ideals in the article, “A Certain Slant.” They address the profit motives in the US film industry, and how this dominates over moral beliefs. Hagedorn talks about the movie’s ability to evoke an emotional response from the viewer, and therein lays its popularity and captivation of the audience.
    This relates back to the reasoning behind Hagedorn’s assertion that Asian women in film have neither joy nor luck. There is a particular stereotype of Asian characters. They can fit into several categories whether that is the “demonized dragon lady” or “tragic victim.” Still, these categories come to define Asians to a public audience, many of whom though the “yellowface” actors were accurate portrayals of Asians. With regard to their luck, this is addressed by the “A Certain Slant” article in part as they depict the struggles Asians had finding work in the film industry. Coming back to the topic of joy, since it was advantageous for producers to depict Asian women in a certain manner that was not happy but rather submissive, or demons, or tragic, they did so. The goal of productions was profit maximization, and this was not achieved through the lucky and joyous Asian character. Furthermore, it would go against common stereotypes and refute the dominant view of society. Challenging society’s racial beliefs does not draw in large crowds, thus Asian women are left with no joy and no luck.

  5. Alyx Smagacz says:

    Jessica Hagedorn comments on the stereotype of Asian movies being about mother daughter relationships. This movie was that very definition; the entire film was based on the relationships with mothers to their daughters and to their own mothers. It wen through different stereotype of Asian cultures for each of the examples and showed the progression of the assimilating Asian Americans
    Hagedorn comments on how the daughters of the mothers in the film seem to have lost their sense of self by assimilating into white culture. I can see where she is coming from and in the beginning of each story it does seem like the girls do not understand their mothers and they seem entirely different from them;they do not speak the language and they do not seem to respect the same values, but I do believe that throughout the story, the girls change in that aspect. when they realize their mother’;s story and the hardships that their mothers have gone through, it seems that they have a much better understanding for their culture and a new connection with their mother that their assimilation has stood in the way of until that point. I think that through the growing relationship with their mothers they gain a sense of their culture and understand their background better. In order to embrace your culture, you need to know about it, and until they truly knew the details of their mother’s experiences, they didn’t have the full knowledge of who their family was and why they were brought up in a certain way.
    Hagerdorn talks of the Asian women to be characterized as very sexualized women, or very childlike and eager for sex. The idea of the women being childlike does seem to be shown in this film and is made very apparent when the girls each continue to call their mothers mommy and their fathers daddy. This seems to be a very childlike title for someone to be calling their parent at such a mature age. The sense of sexualized Asians didn’t really come up too much except for the case where the one mother was a concubine, and a fourth wife, but this situation was brought about under challenging circumstances that forced her to become that sexual figure that she seemed to be according to her parents.

  6. Elise M Peterson says:

    Jessica Hagerdorn asserts in “No Joy, No Luck”, that sadness, sexualization and heartbreak are what have typically surround Asian characters in American film. The Joy Luck Club seems to perfectly illustrate her point. First of all the film is entertaining as a whole because of its drama and tragedy. The older women who share their stories all come from great hardships, which the film dramatizes immensely. Hagerdorn has picked up on a racial typecast of Asian women, that goes rather unnoticed in mainstream America. As Hagerdorn suggests, perhaps we are just satisfied by seing an Asian represented AT ALL that we accept their unfair portrayal (that is a sad thought).

    The character of Suyuan in the film feels that she has to abandon her daughters on the road because she is so plagued with thinking she has some kind of terrible luck. This seems like a severe decision, since the decision is grounded in some mythical belief. This leads the viewer to see Asian culture as very spiritually based. Also, that suffering has been a big part of this characters life. This representation plays into what Hegerdorn was criticizing about Asian representation in film. Suyuan is just another quiete suffering Asian woman, reinforcing that stereotype.

  7. Lisa Sorensen says:

    The critiques in both articles relate to the construction of many of the characters in the film, “No Joy, No Luck” in many different ways. Although there are many, the character that I thought was most constructed in the articles was Rose. While reading both the articles and how they describe Asians, I was continuously reminded of Rose. Throughout the entire movie, Rose submits herself to her husband and will do whatever he wants. Her husband does not ask Rose to do anything however, because of the kind person that she is, she does this by her own will. Just like what Hagedorn says in her article that, ” in the movies, ‘good’ Asian women are childlike, submissive, silent, and eager for sex”(74). This is shown by Rose doing what she things her husband wants and being very passive in her actions. Rarely in the movie does Rose assert herself and stand up for herself and what she wants to do. Rather doing whatever she can do for others and making them happy. Filling the stereotype that has been created of a “good” Asian.
    As it is for most races, Asians also have a certain stereotype of how people view them. In some cases other races go against their stereotypes. However, the No Joy, No Luck phrase is used to show that Asians are unable to go against their given stereotype defined by society.

  8. João Pedro says:

    Much has changed since Hollywood’s golden age regarding the yellowface. The casting of “Joy Luck Club” is notably different as the majority of the actresses are Asian American. In the 1950s, “hardly any of the Asian characters were played by Asians” (Hagedorn 74). “Joy Luck Club” refutes the traditional racist images by rejecting the “taped eyelids” and “funny walk” (Robert 1).

    Concurrently, “Joy Luck Club” reiterates the traditional “good” Asian women. Lena St. Clair (Lauren Tom) is a very good example of stereotypical Asian, considering her gender characteristics. As an Asian women she is “childlike, submissive, and silent” (Hagedorn 74). The relationship between Lena and her husband Harold is particularly striking. The director presents a stereotypical phallocentric relationship, accentuating male supremacy. Lena is trapped in a submissive relationship in which Harold sets the rules. He demands an absurd equality and she silently accepts each bizarre regulation; for instance, a repressed financial equality and austere design ideas. This patriarchal reality is common throughout the film. All female characters have experienced a certain anxiety and frustration led by male power. As Lindo Jong (Tsai Chin) notes, “at night I would meet my husband [that would ]decide if I [would be] happy or not.”

    Hence, due to male supremacy and the intrinsic female submission Hagedorn characterizes the women as having “no joy, no luck?” Nevertheless, despite all the suffering, the director introduces a world of dreams and hopes. All the misery faced by the various female characters ultimately leads to fortune. Lena, for instance, abandons her husband and finds a lovely boyfriend. Therefore, I would disagree with Hagedorn and claim “yes joy, yes luck!”

  9. Merissa Acosta says:

    The movie, The Joy Luck Club, shows stories of tragedy. Almost every single character has had a tragic experience, whether with their husbands or a death. The article by Jessica Hagedorn called “No Joy, No Luck” critiques the movie by saying that she was disappointed by how the daughters lost their culture by assimilating into American society. She says, “I was elated by the grandness and strength of the four mothers…I was uneasy with the passivity of the Asian American daughters. They seemed to exist solely as receptors for their mothers’ amazing life stories… by assimilating so easily into American society, they had lost all sense of self.” (78). This relates to how Asian women in movies are prone to tragedy, as Hagedorn said in her article, and as the daughters are assimilating into the American culture, their lives are becoming less and less tragic. A character in The Joy Luck Club that is specifically targeted by having an overly tragic life is An-Mai Hsu who had terrible luck from marrying her husband. After her whole fiasco with him and his second wife, she moved to American and had a better life. There are other stories like this in the movie, but I thought that this one was one of the most tragic. Hagedorn says, “With every flashback came tragedy. The music soared; the voiceovers were solemn or wistful; tears, tears, and more tears flowed onscreen.” (76). This is the reason why Hagedorn calls the article “No Joy, No Luck”. The stereotypical outcome of this movie displays no joy or no luck whatsoever, which evokes a huge emotional response from the audience. The “suffering” Asian woman is portrayed in many other popular movies such as the hit Disney movie Mulan.

  10. Jessica Steele says:

    It seems that there is no right place for the Asian woman on the big screen. There is a lack of positive roles. Instead, as Jessica Hagedorn notes, “most Hollywood movies either trivialize or exoticize us as people of color and as women.” A sense of sexuality is always a part of the Asian female in the movies. This is definitely the case for the women of the film The Joy Luck Club. It tells the stories of four women from China, and then the stories of their daughters, who were born and raised as Chinese-Americans. A common struggle that all of these women shared was the struggle to know who they are as individuals. An-Mei and her daughter, Rose, both had strong issues that were centered around gender roles. Back in China, An-Mei and her mother were taken advantage of by a male power figure. An-Mei eventually overcomes this and takes the power into her own hands. Rose lives through a similar situation with her husband. She lives to serve and to please him, not living for herself, but rather, for him. After their separation, she gains strength from her mother’s story and stands up to him. Both of these women gain the power and become happy after that. Yet, they are still unable to be their individual selves. They continue to be trapped in the confines of the family. While this is not necessarily a bad thing, it does further the idea of the Asian woman being a sexual being that marries and produces children, furthering the family line.

  11. Linnea Zrioka says:

    White actors have often carried out the “yellow face” performance, which has, “been around in the U.S. for over 200 years” (Ito 2). These performances didn’t provide a positive or accurate image. Jessica Hagedorn says Asian American Actresses have “no joy, no luck” because they have limited roles. If an Asian Actress played a role in which they are “good” then they are “childlike, submissive, silent, and eager for sex” or they are “tragic victim types.” The other alternative is that they are “demonized dragon ladies—cunning, deceitful, sexual provocateurs” (Hagedorn 74). She also discusses how Asian women in Hollywood, are “objects of desire or derision; we exist to provide sex, color, and texture in what is essentially a white man’s world” and they’ve “been taught to play the role, to take care of our men” (Hagedorn 78). There haven’t been many positive or diverse roles for Asian Actresses.

    In the movie, The Joy Luck Club, Rose and Rose’s grandmother play a similar role in which Rose’s mother, An-mei Hsu, discusses how all three of them followed the same path at some point in their life. She says both her mother and her daughter did not know their self worth and did not believe they deserved anything better for themselves. An-mei’s mother commits suicide due to her depressing and unfulfilling life living with three other wives married to the same man who raped her as a young woman. An-mei carries this memory of her mother’s death and tragic life and see’s a similarity with her own daughter. An-mei says she was brought up to be selfless for her husband and to serve her husband, and although Rose was brought up to believe differently (to believe that she deserves what is best for her), she fell to the same fate of losing herself for her husband. Rose, who appears strong and independent before she was married to Ted, begins to lose herself within her marriage by only thinking of and doing for her husband. When she was first married, she gives up school to be with and better serve her husband, automatically defining her position within the marriage. She represents the “good” image within her marriage when she was submissive and silent to her own desires and needs. She even admits to getting pregnant as an attempt to prevent her husband from leaving her. I think the women are all portrayed as victims of some type, whether is from past or current abusive husbands, or even their mothers pressure on them as children, they have dealt with some type of victimization. The movie also shows the women who overcome their victimization and learn to appreciate themselves and come to terms with their darker pasts. After seeing their daughter’s struggles with marriage and life, the mothers try to teach their daughters, through their own stories, to be independent and look after their own well-being.

  12. Donald Duncan says:

    In Hagedorn’s article “No Joy, No Luck”, it is the idea of Hollywood film making that the Asian Woman is submissive to a standard of living. For example, it is the man who makes decisions while the woman’s job is to please her husband. Also, it is the expectation of the Asian woman to expect obedience and perfection from their daughters. In the Joy Luck Club, Hagedorn expresses that the Asian-American daughters “seemed to exist solely as receptors for their mothers’ amazing life stories” (76). No one was probably more receptive from their mother more than Lena, who was in a relationship that was based on equality more than mutual respect, love, and friendship. Even though the stories may have been different, Lena and Ying Ying have managed to overcome their silence to preserve “all sense of self” (76).

  13. Stephanie Morales says:

    Joy Luck Club is a collection of four Asian women whose life histories make them who they are. It is this history of their past that is within these women that is reflected in the film but also serves as a guide for their daughters. These mothers want what is best for their girls and they find themselves seeing themselves within their daughters, through their obstacles and tragedies.
    In Hagedorn’s article “Asian Women in film: No joy, No Luck,” she talks about the Asian stereotype within films is that the women are depicted to be “childlike, submissive, silent, and eager for sex” some of these characteristics is shown in Waverly Jong’s character when she is seen as a “suffering doormat” where she follows all of her mothers rules. Waverly is always trying to please her mother and feels that she is incomplete because she does not have the sense that her persona and identity is enough. She has originally married a Chinese man to please her mother but that wasn’t enough. In reality her mother was happy and proud of her all along. Waverly’s character reiterates Hagedorn’s theory of how Asian women are set and put into these roles of being oppressed by some form of higher power(whether it be family or men) and the women within Joy Luck Club demonstrate that.
    Hagedorn says Asian American Actresses have “no joy, no luck” because they are predetermined to have set roles because of Hollywood’s depiction of them. Asian films follow Hollywood’s stereotypical depictions of these women and since it is only this depiction that is presented to the public they are in a way forced to keep with what has been going on for years. Hagedorn makes a claim that in way we as the audience lie to ourselves with how these women are depicted and what we take from their “performance” is seen differently that was is visually presented-which has taught us how to settle for less. Even though actual Asians actors had a hard time taking up roles within film, since lead roles were only given to whites before-it was difficult to escape the one dimensional characters of Asian women .

  14. Becca Mahar says:

    The film does an excellent job of relating to the articles through the mother daughter roles. The yellow face characters discussed are in Hagedorns article, but despite the correlations in stereotypes, the Joy luck Club does not focus on some of the more prominent physical traits that we associate with Asians. The film uses an Asian cast as well, showing the progress American Entertainment has made regarding authenticity and credibility.
    The film embodies many of the emotional and mental schemas we have established for Asians. These restrictions created by our society for Asian actresses limit their potential immensely. It also facilitates a cycle where they fall into the stereotypes. Hagedorn’s “no joy, no luck,” refers to the struggle to get around these limitations. Asian women are typically depicted as shy, quite, passive, intelligent, and obedient. They are also motivated by perfection. Intelligence and skill are very honorable things in the Asian culture. In the film, Rose plays chess and the piano; when she fails remotely the camera immediately focused in on her family. Women, young women especially were always at the bottom of the pecking order.
    The beginning of the film does an excellent job of representing the inferiority that women have to men in the Asian culture. As married children, the husband makes the rules, tells her what to do, and even makes up stories to which she can’t deny. Even later in the film, Rose falls into this same submissive category when, despite the freedom, she still cannot choose what to cook for her husband. Linda’s narrative is interesting in this sense because it relates to the “purpose” women serve in certain cultures. For her, and many others it seems their role is only to produce healthy male offspring to carry on the family name. The ways in which Asian women are treated are a direct representation of this duty.
    These typecast roles are the only way that minorities hold their ground in American entertainment. If a film does choose to represent an Asian character in a way that is not in accordance with the norm; the defiance and conflict with culture is a usually a central focus. Generational issues seem to be a prominent issue in films with Asian families, once again falling into the stereotypes of the generational divide in Asians and Asian-Americans.

  15. Sara Watson says:

    The article “Asian Women in Film : No Joy No Luck” by Jessica Hagedorn discusses the stereotypes and limited roles that Asian women portray in most major motion pictures. The article discusses how “if [Asian women] are not silent, suffering doormats, then they are demonized dragon ladies – cunning and deceitful” (No Joy No Luck). This specific and limited role was portrayed throughout the film The Joy Luck Club through many of the characters. The flashbacks shows several mothers as silent and submissive women in China forced to marry at young ages without consent, and the present day shows their daughters who are in unhappy marriages, struggling with cheating husbands and racial barriers. Unlike prior movie productions that caused controversy through having Asian actors portrayed by Whites with heavy makeup application and prosthetic eyelids, The Joy Luck Club did not have “yellow-face” acting but rather Asian actors and actresses playing Asian roles. Throughout the course of the film, the audience can see and understand the confusion and problems that arise among Asian and Asian – Americans through modern-day lifestyles and cultural barriers between the daughters, mothers and relationship with their husbands. Although communication appears to be a major factor for the relationships between the mothers and daughters, there appears to be a common theme within the mothers in the fact that they want more for their daughters then to be submissive to men…they want their daughters to be happy with or without the husbands. So while we can see several stereotypes portrayed in the beginning such as submissive Asian women, in the end the film comes to a modern-day and less stereotyped movie because across all race and ethnicities, all mothers want the best for their daughters, which is why this movie can be enjoyed by a wide range of audience members and not just an Asian audience.

  16. Jacob Heaps says:

    I find the difference between the older women in the movie and their daughter’s to be the a very unique relationship. It is obvious that the older women have struggled with various hardships throughout their lives (which the movie does a great job of dramatically depicting). At the same time, it is an interesting contrast to see their daughters, who live a much calmer, more assimilated lifestyle. The character of Rose stands out to me in particular. The stereotype of the character she plays is directly related to the article”Asian Women in Film: No Joy No Luck”. In the article Hagedorn discusses the fact that asian women are portrayed in Hollywood as submissive, quiet, shy, and obedient. Rose’s story often depicts her in this way. Her husband tells her what to cook, what to wear, and how to act. This representation spurs an emotional response from the audience, no matter what the race. The limited role of Asian actors in Hollywood is a problem, and the only way for stereotypes regarding physical appearance, lifestyle, and culture to be removed is to incorporate Asian actors into more feature films.

  17. Brittany Sheehan says:

    The movie Joy Luck Club centers around a theme of tragedy. The main focus of the film is about the life stories of the women as they come to America and try to create a better life after the Revolution in China. While watching the movie, I was immediately drawn to the character Rose, and I felt that her character traits were the same as what Hagedorn describes in her article. In the article “No Joy, No Luck,” Hagedorn describes the stereotypical “good” Asian woman as someone who is childlike, submissive, and silent (74). Rose constantly plays the role of the submissive, obedient housewife, even though her husband does not force her into this role. Even when Rose is around other, more dominant characters like Ted’s mother she is very passive and does not question what the woman is saying to her. I noticed this especially in the scene where Ted introduces Rose to his family and the mother questions the relationship and tells Rose that she cannot date her son because it would essentially look bad for the family. The only time Rose stands up for herself in the conversation is when Ted’s mother assumes Rose is Vietnamese, but Rose corrects her by saying “I’m American.”
    We see Rose maintain this passive role throughout most of the movie, especially in her marriage. A couple scenes really stood out to me, where you just want to tell Rose that it is okay to speak up for yourself if you want something in life. One scene when they were hosting a dinner party and Rose is narrating, she mentions that she turned down a fellowship in Ohio because it was “out of the question,” even though she never brought it up to anyone. Another scene is when Rose and Ted are arguing over what to have for dinner. Rose wants Ted to simply tell her what he wants so she can make it, but Ted wants her input in the situation and Rose doesn’t know how to offer it. Even when she tries to respond to the situation, Rose is still passive because her response is, “just tell me what you want.” Rose never thinks to put herself first, even when her husband tells her directly that he wants to hear from her.
    Hagedorn claims that Asian American actresses have “no joy, no luck” because they are always forced into stereotypical roles that either trivialize or exoticize Asian American women. The second article, “A Certain Slant,” also discusses the pigeonhold placed on Asian American actors and actresses. The author mentions the catch-22 that is placed on so many Asian actors, “who can’t find work because they lack experience, and can’t get experience because all the good Asian roles go to white actors.”

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